EP333: Actually Using Care Plans in the Real World, With (in Order of Appearance) Jeff Hogan, Darrell Moon, Dr. Grace Terrell, Dr. Rich Klasco, Nicole Bradberry, and Kelly Conroy

In Episode 333, Stacey Richter revisits the topic of actually using care plans in the real world, drawing on clips from past guests — Jeff Hogan, Darrell Moon, Grace Terrell, MD, Rich Klasco, MD, Nicole Bradberry, and Kelly Conroy — to explore why patients with the exact same clinical needs often walk away with very different care plans, even when the evidence should point to one.

WHAT YOU'LL LEARN

✅ Why patients with identical clinical profiles often receive different care plans depending on which clinician they see

✅ Why Darrell Moon walked away from being a hospital administrator over how care plans were actually happening

✅ Why population medicine and precision medicine aren't actually incompatible or opposites

✅ What "noncognitive" medicine is, and why it bogs physicians down

✅ How bringing data directly to physicians can change the way they practice

WHY THIS MATTERS

Most patients assume medicine is more science than it actually is when it comes to care planning — the same clinical profile, in the same practice, can generate very different care plans depending on which clinician a patient happens to see. Understanding what's at the core of appropriateness in care, and how data can open physicians' eyes to their own patterns, is a necessary step toward closing that gap.

MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE

Episode 176 with Alex Akers of Health Catalyst: Apple Podcasts | Spotify

Episode 201 with Clint Phillips of Medici

EP309 with Jeff Hogan: Apple Podcasts | Spotify

EP315 with Bob Matthews: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Other Apps

EP305 with Darrell Moon: Apple Podcasts | Spotify

EP319 with Grace Terrell, MD: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Other Apps

EP321 with Rich Klasco, MD: Apple Podcasts | Spotify

EP324 with Nicole Bradberry and Kelly Conroy: Apple Podcasts | Spotify

=== LINKS ===

🔗 Show Notes with all mentioned links: Episode Page

🔗 Healthcare Industry Acronyms and Terms

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00:00 Introduction.

02:10 Jeff Hogan (EP309) talks about the consequences of when there's a disconnect between what the patient thinks is happening and what is actually happening in a care plan.

03:48 EP315 with Bob Matthews.

03:58 Merrill Goozner's perspective on successful population health.

04:55 Why did Darrell Moon (EP305) give up being a hospital administrator because of care plans?

08:02 "It's a myth that population medicine … and precision medicine are incompatible or opposites."—Dr. Grace Terrell (EP319)

11:28 Dr. Rich Klasco (EP321) explains "noncognitive" medicine and why it bogs physicians down.

14:45 What is at the core of appropriateness for care?

16:33 "You start to bring that data to the physician, and it really does open their eyes."—Nicole Bradberry (EP324)

16:51 Nicole Bradberry and Kelly Conroy (EP324) discuss how to really change the way physicians work.